Chinese School - Hotels within walking distance from BLCU -

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Hotels within walking distance from BLCU
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babygodzilla -

so my folks might be coming to town and they would like me to find a hotel that is within walking
distance from my dorm @ BLCU. so can someone give me a list of the better hotels at WuDaoKou?
remember than these are my parents so they're probably willing to pay a little more for the sake
of cleanliness and convenience. Thanks for any help!

不胜感激！



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Madot -

The closest is probably the Xijiao Hotel. It's about 3 minutes from the West Gate. Do NOT rely on
the travel agent to get the best price. My Chinese is not up to it, but even in English, I was
able to get a great bargain on one of the VIP rooms--705 kuai/night including breakfast. The
'official' price is almost exactly double that. Just go there and bargain personally. When you
make the reservation, they will give you a confirmation in writing of the dates, the price, and
what is included (but you'll need a Chinese friend to read this for you). I did this in
preparation for a visit from my husband and everything was very easy.

Mado










babygodzilla -

Thanks. Well maybe I should have broadened my search category. what hotels are within a 10 kuai
taxi ride from BLCU?

thanks!










palindrome -

The 365inn north of Xizhimen is really nice--cheap, comfy, clean, friendly staff, free internet.
The luxeiest room is about 300 yuan. I haven't taken a taxi from there to Wudaokou so I don't know
if it's in your geographic range but it's not too far off.










roddy -

The 365inn is around a 20Y cab ride from Xizhimen. Might be handy if you want to be closer to the
city center, but you can't really call it close to Wudaokou.












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Chinese Mandarin - Foreign words/names trasnliteration/pronunciation in Chinese - any changes needed? -

> Extras > Other cultures and language
Foreign words/names trasnliteration/pronunciation in Chinese - any changes needed?
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View Poll Results: Foreign words/names transliteration/pronunciation in Chinese
Leave it as it is now. I don't want any changes. Please comment. 3 50.00%
Need a new script (somewhat like Japanese kana, Korean Hangul). Please comment. 1 16.67%
Write foreign names in Roman scripts or provide pronunciation in Roman letters. Please comment. 3 5
0.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll



Page 1 of 4 1 23 > »






atitarev -

Hi all,

I heard different opinions about foreign words/names transliteration/pronunciation in Chinese -
learners and natives. Is everyone happy with the status quo? That is, transliterating foreign
words into Chinese using Chinese characters somewhat reminding the original pronunciation and
adjusting to make it sound or mean better?

Issues with this approach are well-known, names become unrecognisable. It's probably OK for
well-known names.

Our Chinese teacher mentioned that foreign names are often written in 2 versions - Chinese
characters and Roman in brackets to show the pronunciation and the original spelling.

Questions:
1) Do you think this needs to be reformed or should it stay unchanged? Which method is needed?
a) New phonetic characters or diacritics to show missing sounds/combinations.
b) borrow and adjust characters to Mandarin from another language/script - Japanese, Korean,
English, etc.
c) No change but provide Roman/other scripts spelling next to the Chinese characters.
2) If you're against the reform (note: I am NOT suggesting to reform Chinese language but the
methods to render some foreign words.
3) Do you think Chinese people need to learn to pronounce SOME sounds/combinations that don't
exist in Chinese, V, R, etc. I had a discussion with Japanese people about their phonetical system
an dif they are happy with it. A few languages borrowed foreign sounds that didn't exist in their
language, a good example is German.

Please don't overreact, by no means I don't want to offend Chinese culture and I like Chinese
language and its writing system.

The vote allows multiple choices. I selected the bottom 2, as I think something needs to change
but I'd like to see your opinion on this.



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wix -

Increased use of roman script is the best solution. It eliminates ambiguity and it accommodates
most of the world's languages.

It is not necessary to expect Chinese people to pronounce the words perfectly. Non-Chinese
speakers won't pronounce words written in pinyin perfectly either. However, the written form will
prevent confusion and when spoken it is more likely to be intelligible than words transliterated
using characters.










wushijiao -

Since most people can’t pronounce foreign names, and instead just pronounce them in a pinyinized
way, I say keep it as it is.










wix -



Quote:


Originally Posted by wushijiao

Since most people can’t pronounce foreign names, and instead just pronounce them in a pinyinized
way, I say keep it as it is.


Of course they pronounce them in a pinyinised way. They are just reading the characters.

For example, they will read 湯母克魯斯 as tangmu kelusi. However, if presented with Tom
Cruise instead, they might say something that more closely resembles the English pronunciation.










wushijiao -



Quote:

Of course they pronounce them in a pinyinised way. They are just reading the characters

.

Haha! I meant when you speak your name to them. For example, almost no one who has not studied
English can pronounce the name Bill. Try getting a 50 year-old man to say that name (I have many
times)! You'll settle for 比尔, or some sort of Chinese name sooner or later. Try saying names
like Hans Blix to Chinese people. You are as likely to get older Chinese to magically understand
final constonants as you are to get older Americans to start pronouncing tones in Chinese names.
It just doesn't register.


I suppose in a generation or so, when the majority of people will have had practice at pronouncing
foreign sounds, it might be easier to convert to another system.










Quest -

I suggest keeping the characters approach but standardizing what characters to use for what sound.
The only reason the roman alphabet would work better is because every country has some sort of
romanization in place for its names in order to communicate with the western world. But this is
not an intrinsic advantage of the roman alphabet, more to do with the status of English. Japanese
and Korean place names, for example, do not cause confusions in China.










gato -



Quote:

Japanese and Korean place names, for example, do not cause confusions in China.

Isn't that only true those city names that mutually agreed upon Chinese character names? But the
controversy over changing 汉城 to 首尓 (Seoul) shows that this isn't always going to be the
case.










atitarev -

Japanese and Korean names don't cause confusion as long as they are not pronounced, IMHO, well
almost. Shénhù (神户) has nothing in common with Kōbe (神戸) or Dàbǎn (大坂/大阪)
with Ōsaka (大阪)

Even if Osaka were rendered phonetically, there is no common character in Mandarin with KA
pronunciation used for foreign words, so it would be something like Ou-sa-jia. KA is not hard to
pronounce for a Mandarin speaker (there is KE, KAO, etc), should there be new characters created
for sound combinations non-existent in Mandarin?

EDIT: thanks Gato










gato -



Quote:

Even if Osaka were rendered phonetically, there is no character in Mandarin with KA pronunciation

You can try 欧萨卡. Kind of ugly, but that's how transliterations are, which is why most
foreigners and foreign companies in China take up a Chinese-sounding name instead.










Quest -

IMO, any method that would require adding sounds to the language should be avoided, because it
will never accomodate sounds of all the languages in the world. Keep it systematic, simple, and
local.












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Learn Chinese online - art courses in Beijing -

> Chinese Culture > Art and Literature
art courses in Beijing
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ckthree -

Hello,

I am a 19-year old German guy and at the moment I am living in Beijing for probably one year. And
because I am interested in art and especially in acrylic-painting I am searching for art and
painting courses in Beijing.
I am living in eastern Beijing, chaoyang district, outside the fifth ring rd, near guangzhuang but
at the weekend or once a week I could go downtown Beijing. But I am not supposed to study art , I
am only interested in non-professional-courses (leisure). So if theres anyone, who could help me
please answer my request.

Christoph



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Learning Chinese - How big is metal in China? -

> Chinese Culture > Music
How big is metal in China?
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HairyPotter -

How big is the metalscene in China? Theres probably fans of the biggest bands there, but are bands
like Masterlast, Loch Vostok, Eidolon or Tokyo Dragons know over there?

Are there alot of chines bands, and if so, how big are they? Can they live of their music?



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Lu -

I'm sure there are a few Chinese metal bands (Tang chao is metal, right?), but they are not big,
and can definately not live of their music.










smalltownfart -

I consider 夜叉 (Yaksa) to be a metal band. They are pretty famous, and have fans in Japan.

Another great band is 瘦人 (Thinman), not really metal, more like heavy rock.

I　don't think the Chinese market can generate enough royalty revenues from (legit) CD sales for
these bands, I think they depend more on other sources of income, like gig fees.










Xiao Kui -

There are a lot of Metallica fans in China, also lots of electric guitar fiends and fans. There's
definitely limited exposure to a variety of lesser known and/or non mainstream metal bands. People
with metal bands can just make money doing gigs, and probably support themselves working in a
musical instrument store and giving lessons. I have an electric guitarist friend in Kunming with a
metal band (think they do more covers than originals) that does this.










HairyPotter -

Thanks for the replies!

I guess the scene in China is developing fast? Could you see a industrial metal band like
Masterlast blowing up over there, or maybe more 70's rock bands like Cactus? Or does it have to be
an already know band (like Metallica)... I guess what Im sayin is, are there room for new bands
yet?

Masterlast:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE-73eOX450


Cactus:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=glance&n=5174










liuzhou -

Yes it's huge! There are at least 12 people who like it.

However, the rest of the population are waiting for a heavy version of Yesterday Once More or
Country Roads.










geek_frappa -



Quote:

Yes it's huge! There are at least 12 people who like it.

there are great japanese bands like melt-banana are actually catching on, which is nice to see....













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Learn mandarin - 飛機阿姐 Woman removed from flight after handbag protest -

> Chinese Culture > Society
飛機阿姐 Woman removed from flight after handbag protest
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skylee -

After Bus Uncle 巴士阿叔, we now have a Plane Sister 飛機阿姐.

Here is a news report on the incident ->



Quote:

繼 「 巴 士 阿 叔 」 後 ， 「 飛 機 阿 姐 」 成 為 網 友 最 新 熱 門 話
題 。 國 泰 航 空 一 班 由 本 港 前 往 東 京 的 航 機 準 備 起 飛 之 際
， 一 名 女 乘 客 拒 絕 聽 從 機 艙 服 務 員 指 示 ， 將 其 Gucci 手 袋 放
到 座 椅 下 ， 雙 方 爭 持 逾 半 小 時 仍 未 解 決 ， 機 組 人 員 召 警
介 入 ， 最 後 女 乘 客 在 其 他 乘 客 的 掌 聲 中 ， 由 軍 裝 警 員 押
送 下 機 ， 飛 機 因 而 延 遲 了 一 個 多 小 時 才 啟 程 。
　
自 稱 目 擊 事 件 的 乘 客 在 網 上 表 示 ， 該 班 原 訂 本 月 7 日 早 上
9 時 10 分 起 飛 的 CX504 客 機 當 時 已 滑 行 至 跑 道 ， 卻 突 然 停 下 ，
過 了 約 15 分 鐘 ， 機 組 人 員 透 過 廣 播 要 求 乘 客 將 行 李 放 到 座
椅 下 ， 再 過 10 多 分 鐘 ， 機 長 又 透 過 廣 播 ， 解 釋 因 經 濟 客 艙
有 乘 客 拒 絕 放 好 行 李 ， 飛 機 將 延 遲 起 飛 ， 乘 客 立 即 起 哄
， 部 份 人 更 以 粗 話 咒 罵 。

女 客 ： 係 機 組 人 員 太 執 着

未 幾， 多 名 機 場 保 安 及 航 空 公 司 人 員 登 機 ， 走 到 接 近 機 尾
的 窗 口 位 置 ， 要 求 該 名 年 輕 女 乘 客 下 機 ， 雙 方 擾 攘 15 分 鐘
， 她 仍 拒 絕 就 範 。 至 10 時 許 ， 三 名 軍 裝 警 員 登 機 交 涉 ， 但
女 乘 客 堅 持 「 搭 開 都 唔 使 將 個 袋 放 落 地 下 ， 點 解 今 次 又
要 ？ 」 一 名 督 察 於 是 以 強 硬 的 語 氣 警 告 ： 「 我 而 家 畀 最
後 一 次 機 會 你 ， 如 果 你 唔 合 作 ， 我 會 立 即 採 取 拘 捕 行 動
。 」

目 擊 者 稱 ， 該 女 乘 客 聞 言 即 帶 同 其 Gucci 袋 ， 與 兩 女 伴 步 離
機 艙 ， 此 時 差 不 多 全 機 乘 客 響 起 熱 烈 掌 聲 ， 夾 雜 英 文 粗
話 ， 「 歡 送 」 她 們 離 去 。 該 女 乘 客 離 開 前 仍 不 甘 地 說 ：
「 唔 關 我 事 ！ 係 佢 （ 機 組 人 員 ） 太 執 着， 我 個 袋 大 咗 兩 吋
係 都 要 我 放 落 椅 底 咋 喎 。 」 女 乘 客 離 開 後 ， 航 機 約 在 10 時
20 分 起 飛 ， 較 原 訂 遲 了 一 個 多 小 時 。 目 擊 者 說 ， 身 旁 的 日
籍 乘 客 還 問 他 該 女 乘 客 是 甚 麼 人 ， 他 只 好 說 是 中 國 人 。

不 過 ， 自 稱 是 該 女 乘 客 的 網 友 留 言 解 釋 ： 「 雖 然 個 Gucci 係
貴 ， 但 我 唔 係 矜 貴 到 連 放 個 袋 落 地 下 都 唔 肯 隻 女 仔 ， 但
係 我 放 晒 個 袋 入 面 ， 成 日 要 烏 低 身 拎 ， 好 唔 方 便 嘛 ， 咁
我 之 前 都 試 過 咁 啦 ， 又 唔 見 人 話 我 ， 我 點 知 間 間 航 空 公
司 都 唔 同 規 矩 。 」 她 形 容 ， 自 己 初 時 「 好 聲 好 氣 」 跟 對
方 理 論 ， 對 方 卻 找 機 長 作 廣 播 ， 「 咁 大 間 公 司 蝦 我 幾 個
女 仔 ， 都 唔 知 知 唔 知 醜 」 ， 並 說 對 香 港 男 士 失 望 ， 眼 見
「 幾 個 女 仔 咁 俾 人 蝦 」 卻 袖 手 旁 觀 。

國 泰 職 員 屢 勸 不 果 報 警

一 名 當 日 在 機 上 的 機 艙 服 務 員 則 留 言 反 駁 ， 當 日 已 向 該
女 乘 客 解 釋 ， 只 需 在 起 飛 及 降 落 期 間 把 手 袋 放 到 地 上 ，
又 提 出 替 她 把 手 袋 放 到 行 李 架 或 衣 櫃 ， 對 方 都 不 肯 接 受 。

國 泰 航 空 發 言 人 昨 日 解 釋 ， 航 機 起 飛 或 降 落 時 ， 乘 客 的
行 李 必 須 擺 放 在 座 椅 下 或 行 李 架 上 等 適 當 位 置 ， 以 免 滾
動 而 危 及 乘 客 安 全 ， 當 日 機 組 人 員 對 該 乘 客 屢 勸 無 效 ，
機 長 決 定 向 警 方 求 助 ， 當 時 警 方 已 向 對 方 說 明 ， 不 依 照
機 艙 安 全 要 求 可 能 觸 犯 《 航 空 保 安 條 例 》 。 警 方 發 言 人
表 示 ， 當 日 早 上 9 時 45 分 接 獲 機 組 人 員 召 喚 ， 指 機 上 一 名
姓 鍾 女 子 與 機 組 人 員 就 行 李 擺 放 問 題 爭 執 ， 最 後 警 方 登
機 安 排 該 女 子 下 機 ， 改 乘 另 一 班 機 ， 事 件 中 無 人 被 捕 。

Some photos said to be of the woman -> 人間極品(GUCCI女魔頭)

And the original post in very Cantonese Cantonese ->



Quote:

話說出發果日7/7 CX504 班機係09:10am起飛,
咁我08:45一上到機因為太疲倦就即刻訓著咗………
開頭都feel到架機開始行緊,去到起飛跑道突然間又停咗大概成15分鐘,
跟住聽到有個空姐用廣東話,國語同英語廣播 :
請所有乘客將手上行李放回座位下,.......多謝合作!
當時周圍d人已經昅睇下邊條粉腸咁麻煩,但都無發現...

再過多15分鐘(已經9:45am)又聽到廣播,
今次係機師 (用英文,內容大致上係) : 而家因為經濟客艙有兩位乘客,
唔願意聽機組人員勸籲,將手上行李放响適當位置,
所以我地起飛時間將會延遲,如有不便,敬請原諒!

全機人即時起哄 + 粗口 (我都有參與), 當大家好努力要搵出兇手時,
突然d空中小姐+少爺好緊張走來走去,
我聽到其中一個話 : 開番道機門比佢地入黎.....
隔咗一陣就見到有3至4個機場保安同2個航空公司d大粒行去機尾右邊窗口位,
個兇手終於現身啦.........

呢條友唔係亞伯亞婆或者國內同胞,而係一名廿令三十年歲,個樣都ok
o既香港女子,
其實件事已經發展到要呢條X婆(請原諒我咁稱呼佢,因為佢實在好不知所謂)落
機,
佢地擾攘咗15分鐘,佢都"賴死唔走",重要同佢地拗點解要佢落機,
真係佢X味呀....

已經10:00am,救星終於到o勒........
有3個警察o黎到,開頭都係勸果條女自己行落機,
但條女都係用拖字訣"賴死唔走",
重同個幫辦講話搭開都唔洗將個袋放落地下,
點解今次又要.......
連個幫辦都頂佢唔順話(都幾惡) : 嗱.....小姐,我而家比最後一次機會你,
如果你再唔合作,我地會立即採取拘捕行動!

條女即刻"笠晒水",拿拿聲攞住佢個裝咗金銀珠寶,
價值$5,.xxx o既名貴GUCCI jolicoeur bag 開始行出機艙,
咁我地全機人都好君子用熱烈o既掌聲歡送佢 (當中夾雜咗d英文粗口),
佢重好串同我地話 : 唔關我事o架,係佢地(機艙人員)太執著,
我個袋大咗兩吋,係都要我放落椅底咋喎!
真係佢X味呀 x 10000000....
重有同佢同行果兩個fd都同佢一齊落咗機,
真係累街坊
最慘係d空中小姐同少爺,
又要由頭check過晒d行李艙....
攪到10:20am先可以起飛(足足遲咗成粒幾鐘,真係X佢個肺)

後來坐响我隔離個日本婆問我,
知唔知個女人係乜野國籍?
我只係好燶咁答佢 : 係一個中國人!

我重將當時情況影咗相(嘗試post啦),
如果有人係識佢o既話,
唔該教下佢搭飛機o既規舉啦!
各位,我已經放咗响本相薄度,可以入去參觀一下呢個人間極品 :





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skylee -

A news report in English -> Woman removed from flight after handbag protest



Quote:

HONG KONG (Reuters) - Armed police removed a woman from a Cathay Pacific flight after she refused
to stow her Gucci handbag under the seat in front of her or in the cabin overhead, Apple Daily
reported on Monday.

The flight this month from Hong Kong to Tokyo was delayed for about an hour as the woman contested
the cabin crew's instructions to put her luxury handbag on the floor or in the compartment above
her seat, a Cathay Pacific spokeswoman said.

"We had to seek help from the authorities," she said.

Other passengers clapped when the woman with the bag was finally escorted off the airplane, Apple
Daily said.

The woman later apologised and she and four friends who also got off the plane were put on a later
flight to Tokyo.

"There was no problem on the other flight," the Cathay spokeswoman said.












selfconstruct -

Here is the NorthSouthEastWest blog translation http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20060731_3.htm












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Chinese Studies - Who's going to BNU for 07/2006? - Page 16 -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools > Studying
Chinese in Beijing
Who's going to BNU for 07/2006?
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Nivea -

oh my god the last post was in dec 2006.

anyway any of you guys football / soccer player still here playing? im new here, just arrived 2
weeks ago, and been trying to find people to play soccer with.



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Chinese Pinyin - How was the Yellow Highlight of Chinese done? -

> Announcements > Bug Reports / Help
How was the Yellow Highlight of Chinese done?
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Hero Doug -

Sorry if this has been posted before ( I imagin it has) but searches didn't bring up what I was
looking for.

What I'd like to know, is how was the yellow highlighting of Chinese words accomplished, as in
this thread.

I've been looking everywhere for this exact feature so I can translate articles or check words
easily (Something like Kingsoft Powerword, but for English users instead).



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roddy -

See Here near the bottom, here, and there's another one somewhere but I think those two should
suffice. Will close this one, anything further can go in second link.

If you want to do this on articles or other texts, see Adsotrans.com

Roddy












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Learn Chinese - Chinese Character Translation - Page 2 -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
Chinese Character Translation
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jayb55 -

will consider jockster...



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kk_agnostic -

If you want to have some sense of humor. 小强 may be a better choice .










lau -

a 成语 优胜劣败 would be appropriate










teatea -

优胜劣汰 may be better. It means the good survive and the bad die out.
Or you can use "强者生存" .










horas -

*

Probably one should throw a look at the Chinese translation of Charles Darwin's evolution book and
see what the translation of 'survival of the fittest' is in Chinese.


The Origin of Species (1872)
Chapter IV: Natural Selection; Or the Survival of the Fittest

-










teatea -

believe me, it is "优胜劣汰"，you can check up in Darwin(达尔文)'s "进化论".












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HSK - tones again, some hard evidence - Page 3 -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
tones again, some hard evidence
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owen -

I always used to wonder about tones in music. I now realize they are impossible* (at least in the
westernized pop music, couldn't comment on any traditional forms). One can only conclude that
chinese lyrics must be lacking in expressiveness being deprived of such a crucial indicator of
meaning. That is to say, unless one is singing in a very predictable context, a purely aural
listener would easily get lost.

*i'm just waiting for someone to come in and try to tell me that they can hear tones when they
listen to pop music. When i was beginning to learn chinese and asked people about this many csl
learners told me they could hear them but no native speakers could honestly say the same. I guess
in a sense they may have been hearing them in their mind's ear.



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HashiriKata -



Quote:

*i'm just waiting for someone to come in and try to tell me that they can hear tones when they
listen to pop music.

I certainly can hear tones in music !
But let's not be making sweeping claims here: the problems with tone in Chinese music is not far
different from the situations we may face with music in any other languages. In English, we
sometimes have no problems with understanding (=making out the words in) the lyrics and at other
times we have no clues what's being sung. Even when we know/understand the lyrics, we also realise
that sometimes the pronunciation is a bit off the way we normally speak. Chinese tones are
similarly sometimes distorted due to the contour of the music or the type of the music, but not
always and not in normal circumstances. Anyway, there have been interesting discussions about this
relation in this forums, try a search and you may find them.










roddy -



Quote:

That is to say, unless one is singing in a very predictable context, a purely aural listener would
easily get lost.

There's not a more predictable context than a Chinese pop song . . .










owen -



Quote:

Chinese tones are similarly sometimes distorted due to the contour of the music or the type of the
music, but not always and not in normal circumstances.

i don't think their sometimes distorted. I'm 100% sure that they are almost never there. Unless
you're listening to some very strange songs that build the tones into the melody (which would
sound pretty strange, i'd be interested to hear), then it's impossible to simultaneously sing a
melody (as we know it) and account for tones.

As for the predictable context, imagine a song like this being sung in chinese. I think without a
lyric sheet the listener would be totally lost. Whereas most of the words can be understood in
english if one pays close attention.
Points for identifying the song by the way.

That's great, it starts with an earthquake, birds and snakes, an aeroplane -
Lenny Bruce is not afraid. Eye of a hurricane, listen to yourself churn -
world serves its own needs, don't misserve your own needs. Feed it up a knock,
speed, grunt no, strength no. Ladder structure clatter with fear of height,
down height. Wire in a fire, represent the seven games in a government for
hire and a combat site. Left her, wasn't coming in a hurry with the furies
breathing down your neck. Team by team reporters baffled, trump, tethered
crop. Look at that low plane! Fine then. Uh oh, overflow, population,
common group, but it'll do. Save yourself, serve yourself. World serves its
own needs, listen to your heart bleed. Tell me with the rapture and the
reverent in the right - right. You vitriolic, patriotic, slam, fight, bright
light, feeling pretty psyched.










in_lab -

In Chinese the listener would have a really hard time making sense of all that, but the same goes
for English. If those lyrics have meaning for you, it is probably only because you have read and
thought about the lyrics. After "It starts with an earthquake," the words don't really mean
anything to me.










wai ming -



Quote:


Originally Posted by owen

Unless you're listening to some very strange songs that build the tones into the melody (which
would sound pretty strange, i'd be interested to hear), then it's impossible to simultaneously
sing a melody (as we know it) and account for tones.


AFAIK, most Cantonese songs follow the tones in their melodies.










owen -

in_lab, you missed my point. All i'm saying is that the words themselves, individually can, for
the most part, be deciphered. Like if walked up to you and said 'horse sunny jazz then italicize
ballon can't soup very', you might look puzzled but you would know the words which had been said.
I'm not sure the same could be done in chinese, at least not in a song.

I asked my friend who majored in jazz vocal and who currently sings pop and jazz with a few
different ensembles. I asked her whether she has ever heard any canto pop and she said she had.
Then i also showed her a jolin tsai song and she said in that song or in any canto pop she's heard
she didn't notice any marked difference between the singing style of those songs and western pop,
i.e. no tones in either.
Someone should do a test. Get a native speaker who can sing decently and then write a randomn
string of characters. Ask them to sing it to some popular tune and have another native speaker
listen. Then see how many tones they can get right. I'd bet my life they would get no more than
pure chance would allow.










wai ming -

Erm, just a minor point... but I'm pretty sure Jolin Tsai doesn't sing in Cantonese

And while there might not be any difference in singing style, the tones of the lyrics of most
Cantonese songs will fit the melodies. You might find this link of interest.










Quest -



Quote:

the tones of the lyrics of most Cantonese songs will fit the melodies.

Too much so now that the lyrics become nonsensical garbage.










in_lab -

Owen, I understood your point, but what I meant is that it doesn't really matter. In Chinese it
can be difficult to understand words devoid of meaningful context, but words that are devoid of
meaningful context are essentially meaningless. In English, you understand the words, but they
mean nothing.












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Study Chinese - Awesome Mandarin! Must listen! -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Awesome Mandarin! Must listen!
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wannabeafreak -

.



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self-taught-mba -

Listened to the first 5 minutes.

Up thru his regrets of Pimsleur. Listen more later. . .maybe.

Now my opinion:

I know I'm going to get flamed really bad for this but here goes (I'm no stranger to controversy
on the board anyway). I'm really not all that impressed. His pronunciation is pretty good, his
intonation is fairly decent, but he still obviously has a foreign accent. I'm pretty busy and I
must admit conversation is little boring and wasn't very complicated.

He's done what a lot of self-study people did: got some help with the beginning pronunciation,
grabbed some tapes and watched some TV.

I think he discounts the benefit of Pimsleur although I have several major beefs with them also.
(another thread in the planning)

In fact, he did a lot of what I've done and I think my level was comparable to his before coming
to China. Am I bragging or trying to –no. I've mentioned elsewhere that I've met many
self-taught people who were at a level that many would-be surprised at. Why do they make progess
so quickly? part is motivation but a large part I proffer is do to the focus on needful things
first.

I am impressed with his resolve to study on his own and the same with anyone, but not so much with
the outcome which I've seen with other self-taught people. (I didn't listen to his English) I'm
more impressed with him learning to speak three languages (at once?) and that says something
(especially learning the mess that is English!).

I'm just saying that there's absolutely no reason why each and every single student of Chinese
cannot reach that level in the same amount of time. I've met people who spent three years in
college courses of Chinese and are not nearly at that level.

And then I meet the self-taught people who come here and just run circles around them. So not
criticizing him by any means I'm just saying that this outcome is not special or extraordinary.
Unfortunately, not everyone is able to self-study on their own. One has to weed through myriads of
worthless information before you find useful tools and methods. In some people never do find the
right way, and some of us get lucky. But you've also heard the rant about the current situation
about teaching Chinese. I'm just saying there's absolute no excuse why students coming out of the
new American college course shouldn't be at the same level or higher.

So yes, take this man is an example of what to do. Hopefully institutions will begin to copy it
too. I'm not trying to bring him down or his accomplishment; I'm just trying to say that this
accomplishment is well within reach for each and every one of us.
Don't think that it's not possible for the average person—it is. JIA1 YOU2!!










geraldc -

I'm more impressed by the interviewer, but I guess if you're a diplomat you get paid to learn
languages and talk to people










wushijiao -

I think they are both pretty good, especially in light of the fact that they are learning outside
of China. I agree with self-taught-mba that self-taught people are often more efficient at the
beginning stages. But, most successful self-taught people, like these guys, are already
multilingual, and thus know how to study languages. But many monolingual English speakers simply
don’t know what they need to do, unfortunately.










ange9s -

I would think taking classes is more efficient than self-study, since you don't always design your
own curriculum around fundamentals. That doesn't mean someone in a university class will always
learn the language better, though; when taking language classes in college, I wasn't usually too
concerned about how well I learned the language as long as I got a good grade. His mandarin was
okay, I think that's about the speaking level you should be aiming for after two years of study.










Lugubert -

Max being a Swede, I'm not surprised. I'ts for example not at all unusual to find people around
here who are sufficiently fluent in English and German. My youngest sister, who has had only 9
years of formal schooling, manages English, German, French, and Spanish.

Besides those languages, which I manage, I'm pretty fluent in Dutch, but have had only one year of
Chinese and one semester plus of Hindi, so I can't express myself very well in those languages,
and understand very little of them when spoken. Judging from my progress so far, if I were to
concentrate on Chinese, and found a conversation partner, I would be able to keep up a simple
conversation in a year or less. For several reasons, however, I'm going to concentrate on Hindi in
the autumn, and don't doubt for a moment that I will be fairly proficient by next spring.

My major problem in learning is that by my advanced age, I've lost most of any in-born mechanisms,
so I have to use what methods and experiences I might have acquired through studying lots of
languages at elementary university levels. For example, when I in my 20's worked in Amsterdam, I
picked up Dutch from scratch to a fair fluency in 1.5 months. When younger still, I couldn't even
avoid learning foreign words. Having noticed them, they just stuck. Would that I had been more
intent on learning other languages than those required in school in those days!

It's perhaps interesting, at least to me, that I have studied languages from widely different
language families (Hindi, Chinese, Arabic...), and I work as a full-time translator (nowadays
practically only medical texts from Germanic languages into Swedish), and I still don't understand
how I work or what happens when I'm learning languages or translate.










mind_wander -

I kinda self-study, almost the same way like max, he isn't that bad for a foreigner, very close
and sounds like me. I have alittle chinese mandarin, then mix it with English at the same time.










bomaci -

Ok I guess I should come out of the woodwoork. The person interviewed is me.



Quote:

I know I'm going to get flamed really bad for this but here goes (I'm no stranger to controversy
on the board anyway). I'm really not all that impressed. His pronunciation is pretty good, his
intonation is fairly decent, but he still obviously has a foreign accent. I'm pretty busy and I
must admit conversation is little boring and wasn't very complicated.

Yeah I know I missed some tones. But I'm confident that if I 继续努力 I should get them
straightened out. 大山 is safe for the time being .



Quote:

I think he discounts the benefit of Pimsleur although I have several major beefs with them also.
(another thread in the planning)

Maybe I am discounting the benefits, but I think Pimsleur falls very short when it comes to
vocabulary. At first I felt that it didn't matter as long as I got the tones and the grammar down.
However I have now discovered that vocabulary is tremendously important in mandarin. For me it is
the hardest part of the language, because it is a problem that will always be there. You will
always have to learn new words so the sooner you get started the better. Pimsleur spends too much
time to only teach you 500 words. Furthermore some people claim that having done Pimsleur you will
have perfect pronounciation. Obviously this is not so. I can repeat all the Pimsleur sentences
perfectly, but I am still not tone perfect in conversation.




Quote:

In fact, he did a lot of what I've done and I think my level was comparable to his before coming
to China. Am I bragging or trying to –no. I've mentioned elsewhere that I've met many
self-taught people who were at a level that many would-be surprised at. Why do they make progess
so quickly? part is motivation but a large part I proffer is do to the focus on needful things
first.

I am absolutely sure there are people who have come a lot further than me in the same amount time.
I work full time so can only study chinese in my spare time. I'm sure someone who studies fulltime
and used efficient methods would come alot further than I have in the same amount of time.










mind_wander -

bomaci,
When I listened to the interview, I heard alot of "na ge" alot. I just curious what kinds of
chinese tv series do you watched when you were using it as a learn tool. I do the same!










bomaci -



Quote:

When I listened to the interview, I heard alot of "na ge" alot. I just curious what kinds of
chinese tv series do you watched when you were using it as a learn tool. I do the same!

I think my overusage of "na ge" is more due to lack of vocabulary than anything else
Anyway the TV series I'm learning from is 我爱我家. From what I have heard it was the first
sitcom ever aired in china.












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Learn mandarin - English word for 小灵通 ? -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
English word for 小灵通 ?
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HashiriKata -

Is there an English word for 小灵通 ? I know it's a kind of mobile phones but "mobile phones"
in Chinese is 手机, so what is 小灵通 ?

Thanks,



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roddy -

It's usually referred to in English as PHS or Personal Handyphone System, which is the name of the
system and has the virtue of being ugly, rather than silly like the other version, 'Little Smart',
which is the translation of the xiaolingtong brand name.

Edit: Having said that, I'd probably prefer to just use the pinyin, unless you are referring to
the generic technology. And is there a less clumsy term for that the Personal Handyphone System?
Personal Access System is also used, but doesn't seem much better.










HashiriKata -

Thanks Roddy, you're very quick!

I've also just now found this from Wikipedia:


Quote:

Xiaolingtong (小灵通) is the Chinese brand name for the PAS mobile network system. Unlike
"true" mobile networks like GSM, Xiaolingtong acts as the wireless extension for the wired
telephone system in China, also known as wireless local loop. The phone's range is limited to the
local calling region, which is usually a single metropolitan area.














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Showing results 1 to 3 of 3
Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 3 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: ax

Forum: Reading and Writing 28th December 2003, 08:47 AM

Replies: 44

Learning strategies for Chinese characters

Views: 9,791

Posted By ax


does that game involves writing on paper or...

does that game involves writing on paper or whiteboard?

btw here's some, 早 杲 暑 昔. but there are too many you can add to 日

ax



Forum: Reading and Writing 23rd December 2003, 10:37 AM

Replies: 44

Learning strategies for Chinese characters

Views: 9,791

Posted By ax


@skylee &amp; pazu Don't you think Chinese...

@skylee & pazu

Don't you think Chinese is a bit undictatable. With the devide et impera method you can easily
dictate Chinese.

In English, if you are dictating someone and come across a word...



Forum: Reading and Writing 22nd December 2003, 05:56 PM

Replies: 44

Learning strategies for Chinese characters

Views: 9,791

Posted By ax


My method is called "devide et impera",...

My method is called "devide et impera", the colonialist should love this :-)

You can go thru the radical tables, or scan current newspaper for any characte elements that you
don't know and then...



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Showing results 1 to 2 of 2
Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: againstwind

Forum: Reading and Writing 10th October 2006, 10:17 PM

Replies: 13

Translation?

Views: 1,129

Posted By againstwind


完全同意。

完全同意。



Forum: Reading and Writing 9th October 2006, 11:06 PM

Replies: 13

Translation?

Views: 1,129

Posted By againstwind


imron's definition from dictionary is...

imron's definition from dictionary is accurate.



I can't agree any more.:mrgreen:



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Showing results 1 to 11 of 11
Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 3 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: Altair

Forum: Reading and Writing 19th June 2005, 08:11 AM

Replies: 63

Is this true?

Views: 6,809

Posted By Altair


For additional information about written...

For additional information about written Cantonese, those interested may wish to consult this site
(http://www.answers.com/topic/written-cantonese) .



Forum: Reading and Writing 11th June 2005, 11:59 PM

Replies: 63

Is this true?

Views: 6,809

Posted By Altair


All song lyrics can be read with Cantonese...

All song lyrics can be read with Cantonese pronunciations. Virtually every character in a Chinese
dictionary can be pronounced according to Mandarin vocal habits or Cantonese vocal habits. The
only...



Forum: Reading and Writing 6th June 2005, 04:32 AM

Replies: 63

Is this true?

Views: 6,809

Posted By Altair


This is done as described above. There is a...

This is done as described above. There is a uniform standard for pronouncing words; however there
are two slightly different standards for combining the words into sentences. One standard
applies...



Forum: Reading and Writing 5th June 2005, 08:45 PM

Replies: 63

Is this true?

Views: 6,809

Posted By Altair


Those of you familiar with the phenomenon of...

Those of you familiar with the phenomenon of Cantopop might be interested in the following quotes
form this site (http://www.answers.com/topic/cantopop) .




These quotes suggest that the majority...



Forum: Reading and Writing 4th June 2005, 08:47 PM

Replies: 63

Is this true?

Views: 6,809

Posted By Altair


The issue here is mostly with function words...

The issue here is mostly with function words (虚词). For example, Cantonese uses different words
for the concepts expressed in Mandarin by 在 zai4, 是 shi4, 的 de, verb- 了 , 不 bu4, 他
ta1, 们 men, 那儿 nar3,...



Forum: Reading and Writing 3rd June 2005, 11:59 AM

Replies: 63

Is this true?

Views: 6,809

Posted By Altair


I agree, but the majority of speakers probably do...

I agree, but the majority of speakers probably do use this structure. I was not trying to stress
so much that Cantonese and English are in the same situation, but that the situation in Cantonese
has...



Forum: Reading and Writing 2nd June 2005, 07:37 PM

Replies: 63

Is this true?

Views: 6,809

Posted By Altair


They deal with it quite easily. The simply write...

They deal with it quite easily. The simply write one way and speak another.

English is not too different. Spoken and written grammar differ more than people realize. Below
are a series of English...



Forum: Reading and Writing 1st June 2005, 06:24 PM

Replies: 63

Is this true?

Views: 6,809

Posted By Altair


I was hoping someone would come to my rescue on...

I was hoping someone would come to my rescue on issues such as this. When would you be likely to
hear people use words like 是 and 不 in daily life, only when reading written text out loud?

I made my...



Forum: Reading and Writing 1st June 2005, 06:37 AM

Replies: 63

Is this true?

Views: 6,809

Posted By Altair


I think I may have caused confusion. There are...

I think I may have caused confusion.

There are now in effect two types of Cantonese: the traditional one and the hybrid one that
conforms to Mandarin grammar and word choice. Both are pronounced...



Forum: Reading and Writing 31st May 2005, 07:29 PM

Replies: 63

Is this true?

Views: 6,809

Posted By Altair


Basically, yes, except for niche uses like trying...

Basically, yes, except for niche uses like trying to take down testimony or writing folk dramas in
local dialect.



This was the only way to read, since there was no standard dialect. In fact, my...



Forum: Reading and Writing 30th May 2005, 08:26 PM

Replies: 63

Is this true?

Views: 6,809

Posted By Altair


I agree with what Skylee posted, but wanted to...

I agree with what Skylee posted, but wanted to add a little bit more. I am relatively certain
about 95% of my facts, and invite others to correct the 5% I will get wrong.

The Qin standardization...



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Search took 0.08 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: zh-laoshi

Forum: Reading and Writing 30th July 2004, 03:55 AM

Replies: 72

Teachers who teach Traditional Characters?!! Why?

Views: 10,715

Posted By zh-laoshi


I learned the traditional characters before the...

I learned the traditional characters before the simplified ones. I found it easier to understand a
character better in the traditional form - its original meaning. The simplified characters do
that,...



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Showing results 1 to 2 of 2
Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: volga_volga

Forum: Reading and Writing 26th August 2007, 06:03 PM

Replies: 77

I Hate Hanzi

Views: 8,444

Posted By volga_volga


Re: I Hate Hanzi

IMHO, apart from big cities in the East coast, and some tourist centers like Xian and Kunming, you
woudn't survive, not talking about interacting with locals and becoming a part of the local...



Forum: Reading and Writing 25th August 2007, 10:43 PM

Replies: 77

I Hate Hanzi

Views: 8,444

Posted By volga_volga


Re: I Hate Hanzi

to the OP, here is my motivation for learning hanzi:

I found out, I couldn't survive in China if I didn't know hanzi. I am surrounded by public
notices, signs, timetables, announcements,...



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Showing results 1 to 2 of 2
Search took 0.04 seconds; generated 3 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: niubi

Forum: Reading and Writing 25th December 2003, 12:20 PM

Replies: 99

Chinese Idiom Rally

Views: 8,816

Posted By niubi


...no doubt the truth will "come to...

...no doubt the truth will "come to light" - 水落石出 (shui3 luo4 shi2 chu1; literally, when
the water recedes the rocks are exposed)



Forum: Reading and Writing 25th December 2003, 04:57 AM

Replies: 99

Chinese Idiom Rally

Views: 8,816

Posted By niubi


美人其面，蛇蝎其心 (mei3 ren2 qi2 mian4, she2 xie1 qi2...

美人其面，蛇蝎其心 (mei3 ren2 qi2 mian4, she2 xie1 qi2 xin1) - a fair face may hide a
foul heart (lit. a beautiful face with a heart of a snake or scorpion)



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Search took 0.11 seconds; generated 3 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: 林彪

Forum: Reading and Writing 5th May 2004, 01:28 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By 林彪


My first Chinese language professor had a PhD in...

My first Chinese language professor had a PhD in Chinese, spent 25 years studying it, had lived in
China and Taiwan extensively, but could not write the traditional characters for 书 and 为
when...



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Search took 0.03 seconds; generated 3 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: confucius

Forum: Reading and Writing 23rd July 2003, 01:12 PM

Replies: 4

new message board to practice using pinyin and characters

Views: 1,989

Posted By confucius


I'm online with you now, Roddy! Are you sure you...

I'm online with you now, Roddy! Are you sure you want a chat box with Confucius and channamasala
lurking about?



Forum: Reading and Writing 23rd July 2003, 12:41 PM

Replies: 4

new message board to practice using pinyin and characters

Views: 1,989

Posted By confucius


I used to terrorize the pinyin chat at...

I used to terrorize the pinyin chat at www.zhongwen.com long ago.
There are still old regulars there now who would have a panic attack at the very sight of my name.
I met Chinese learners from places...



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Search took 0.04 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: chenpv

Forum: Reading and Writing 24th August 2005, 07:50 PM

Replies: 9

A classical Word puzzle

Views: 1,513

Posted By chenpv


不错啊，看来不是假冒的 :)

不错啊，看来不是假冒的 :)



Forum: Reading and Writing 24th August 2005, 07:24 PM

Replies: 9

A classical Word puzzle

Views: 1,513

Posted By chenpv


hehe

来而不往非礼也。 got one for you:
一木口中栽，非杏也非呆。若把困字猜，不是真秀才。 :)



Forum: Reading and Writing 24th August 2005, 05:03 PM

Replies: 9

A classical Word puzzle

Views: 1,513

Posted By chenpv


hehe

Daydreamer must be dreaming something 'delicious'. :)



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Search took 0.03 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: florazheng

Forum: Reading and Writing 16th June 2004, 07:43 PM

Replies: 17

"Wife" and "Husband"

Views: 2,829

Posted By florazheng


女人: noun. woman 女的: adjective (no equivalent in...

女人: noun. woman
女的: adjective (no equivalent in English? feminine?)
婆: old woman
女性: female
:D

and these words for "man"?:

男人: see 女人
男的: see 女的



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Forum: Reading and Writing 8th April 2004, 10:03 AM

Replies: 2

"Cracking the Chinese Puzzles" ?

Views: 1,138

Posted By tomgerman822


"Cracking the Chinese Puzzles" ?

Someone on this forum mentioned this set of books for learning characters ("Cracking the Chinese
Puzzles" by TK Ann). I was wondering if anyone could tell me what's in these books... I can't seem
to...



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Search took 0.03 seconds; generated 3 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: Ailisi

Forum: Reading and Writing 27th September 2007, 03:48 PM

Replies: 1

Searching for bilingual (Chinese - English) websites

Views: 392

Posted By Ailisi


Searching for bilingual (Chinese - English) websites

I was hoping some of you good folk might know of some websites where articles are available
translated into both Chinese and English. The site is a good example, but I
was hoping...



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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 3 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: gato

Forum: Reading and Writing 25th June 2007, 08:40 PM

Replies: 18

Cameron Diaz and her Maoist bag

Views: 1,292

Posted By gato


Re: Cameron Diaz and her Maoist bag

She was pretty good in "Being John Malkovich."



Forum: Reading and Writing 25th June 2007, 05:43 PM

Replies: 18

Cameron Diaz and her Maoist bag

Views: 1,292

Posted By gato


Re: Cameron Diaz and her Maoist bag

From a news site for expats living in Peru:



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Forum: Reading and Writing 24th January 2008, 09:58 PM

Replies: 103

Reading my book

Views: 3,754

Posted By roddy


Re: Reading my book

冲 here means to rush, dash, yes. 并 can be similar to 'and', but in this case it's acting as an
intensifier for the negative '没' - you'll see things like 并不知道, 并没有来, which are
just stronger ways of...



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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 3 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: Quest

Forum: Reading and Writing 21st March 2008, 07:48 AM

Replies: 56

The Revival of Traditional Characters is Coming?

Views: 2,735

Posted By Quest


Re: The Revival of Traditional Characters is Coming?

I'd love to see a unified script, wouldn't care much which one it is as long as its Chinese
characters. Realistically, I think the simplified script has a brighter future, but it will only
achieve...



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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 3 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: renzhe

Forum: Reading and Writing 15th April 2008, 03:54 AM

Replies: 10

What is HSK?

Views: 551

Posted By renzhe


Re: What is HSK?

In short, no. The whole thing is a bit complicated.

There are 11 grades in the HSK test, 1-3 is basic, 3-8 is elementary/intermediate and 9-11 is the
advanced test.

There are also word/character...



Forum: Reading and Writing 14th April 2008, 11:42 PM

Replies: 10

What is HSK?

Views: 551

Posted By renzhe


Re: What is HSK?

Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hànyǔ_Shuǐpíng_Kǎoshì)



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Forum: Reading and Writing 2nd May 2008, 05:35 PM

Replies: 19

Using 那 instead of 哪

Views: 667

Posted By rob07


Re: Using 那 instead of 哪

Noticed it in in the 红楼梦. For example, from Chapter 23:

只见林黛玉正在那里 ,
宝玉便问他:"你住那一处好?"林黛玉正心里盘算这事,忽见宝玉问他,便笑道:"��
�心里想着潇湘馆好



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Forum: Reading and Writing 7th May 2008, 05:29 PM

Replies: 12

之所以

Views: 371

Posted By muyongshi


回复: 之所以

If you are referring to some way of trying to remember or something like that it is just a simple
matter of remembering (also known as learning it). You just do, you don't complain about it's...



Forum: Reading and Writing 6th May 2008, 08:58 PM

Replies: 12

之所以

Views: 371

Posted By muyongshi


回复: 之所以

And in case you didn't notice the pattern the way of saying it is
之所以。。。。。是因为。。。。。

So another way to think about it would just be saying 因为。。。。所以。。。。 but
with the sentence flipped around (a bit of a...



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Forum: ZDT Flashcards Forum 2nd May 2008, 02:51 AM

Replies: 5

ZDT: Time for a Dictionary Update –or– Is Something Eating My Characters ?

Views: 318

Posted By bogleg


Re: ZDT: Time for a Dictionary Update –or– Is Something Eating My Characters ?

I've just posted updates to the Cedict (0.4.0) and Handedict (0.3.0) dictionary plugins based on
the latest dictionary files.

You can download them from...



Forum: ZDT Flashcards Forum 30th April 2008, 09:45 PM

Replies: 5

ZDT: Time for a Dictionary Update –or– Is Something Eating My Characters ?

Views: 318

Posted By bogleg


Re: ZDT: Time for a Dictionary Update –or– Is Something Eating My Characters ?

Well the Adso dictionary has quite a bit more entries than Cedict or Handedict and it seems to be
pushing the limit of the database. If there's someone out there who's a database expert who can
help...



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